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Greenwingmax

An emigrating flock - five birds' stories!

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Getting the human inhabitants of this household into Canada has been relatively easy, apart from being asked to "pop" to Canada for an interview earlier this year!! We have sent off our passports to have our vis'a attached and we intend to make the move May-time 2008 (piccies of our fab house on my photobucket!)

 

I thought I was reasonably well prepared for sorting out the birds but now I am not so sure. DEFRA used to have export permits, but when I rang them the lady in Preston said I didn't need one. She did not ask what sort of birds they are.

 

I emailed my vet who is also authorised to sign off birds for export/import. He said to ask Defra for a specimen export certificate (!) so I rang Animal Airlines to see if they could give me a quote and some advice on this flaming paperwork. they said it would be very surprising if no paperwork was required at this end.

 

So I rang Defra in Stafford, as advised by them, and asked for an export certificate. She said Canada had suspended the need for this at present, so I just needed paperwork from them.

 

I emailed the relevant man in Labrador, Canada, to ask for his advice. He was lovely and emailed back my contact to authorise quarantine in Canada, a link to their import permit, and noted it would take a while to get CITES paperwork sorted so I should start now. No-one at Defra had even mentioned this, gawd save us!!

 

So after a load of digging, I emailed someone at DEFRA about Cites paperwork, he sent a link to about eight different forms, which seem to contradict each other. One says I need CITES paperwork for birds for "personal use" ie. pets, another says pets are exempt. I have no idea what I need to fill in! Luckily, there is a phone number there as well so next weeks job is to call DEFRA and get them to talk me through it.

 

Of course, all this is moot at the moment as there is a 90 day suspension on the movement of birds every time a bird flu outbreak is confirmed.

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH !!

 

Feel better now!

Rachel

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Oh boy! This takes me back!!!!!!!! to when we were trying to send a couple of my son's parrots to the USA to join him there.

 

Have this one on me........

 

 

](*,)

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On any export,the main thing is to ensure that the airline you choose will accept this and that the receiving country will also accept it,also it is important to check this again within 10 days of export to make sure this is still valid,you will (i expect)also need a vet health check within 48 hours of export by a ministry vet,your local vet may be qualified for this but it is more paperwork.

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Mike,

 

Great common sense reply, thanks!

Unfortunately, I have already phoned Zoom, who carry birds, to ask about their specific requirements.

 

They gave me the cargo number, and the lady there said she had not been asked about parrots before, so to check with officials what paperwork we need. She said to get a company to sort it out, like Jetsetpets, but surely they will have to ring Zoom to get the correct answers! If they don't flaming know, what hope have we?

 

AAAGH again !!

 

I think I will email the cargo section of Zoom and try to get something in writing.

 

Cgm - can you offer any advice having been down this path before?? :D

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I'll get my paperwork out - it's full of lists!

 

We never actually managed to send them out because we found it impossible to complete all the questions the American govt insisted we answer to their satisfaction.

 

This was because we couldn't prove that the CAG was bred in this country, and not wild caught.

We couldn't prove it because he was bought from a pet shop, without any history except that he was about 2 yrs old and his owners didn't want him any more.

 

While we were trying to track down the shop we ran out of time.

(They had to join my son within 6 months of his moving out there.)

 

I've PM'd you. :D

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Actually I've just done a search and come up with this, which I wrote a couple of years ago - remember it's relevent to the States, and is about 4+ years out of date.

 

https://www.parrot-link.co.uk/index.php?topic=4410.0

 

I know we were told that it was impossible to ensure that a bird's owner could travel on the same plane as the birds were put on, but it wouldn't matter, because we wouldn't be able to see them until after their time in a quarantine station anyway.

 

Do they have to go into a quarantine station when they enter Canada? I don't know.

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We decided to use

 

1)Pet travel agent par air

http://www.parair.co.uk/

 

2)British Airways from Heathrow

http://www.baworldcargo.com/products/liveanimals.shtml?site=%2Fproducts%2Fliveanimals.shtml#2

 

I found both of them really helpful when I rang to ask advice, and you might find some useful advice on their websites.

You can never have too much information!!

 

Also Defra were very helpful.

They sent me the paperwork with the guidance for importers and exporters, and all the forms to fill in. Several of these were specific to exporting to the States eg the health certificate to be completed by the LVI.

 

I got a copy of the Special Rules for Bringing Pet Birds into the United States and the form applying for a place in a quarantine facility from the relevant USA govt dept.

 

I believe there is different paperwork etc for pet birds from zoo/breeding birds.

 

But please remember we only did the theory part. It was America, not Canada, and it never actually happened.

 

:D

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Mike,

 

She said to get a company to sort it out, like Jetsetpets, but surely they will have to ring Zoom to get the correct answers! If they don't flaming know, what hope have we?

 

AAAGH again !!

 

I think I will email the cargo section of Zoom and try to get something in writing.

 

 

I think maybe there is confusion because the airline doesn't really have to be involved in checking all the paperwork. As long as you pay the fare, what happens to the animal cargo after it lands doesn't concern them.

 

I know we were warned that if our birds landed in the States with incomplete paperwork, they would be temporarily kept in an area considered to be outside the States, while arrangements were made to fly them straight back to their destination - provided we were immediatly able to pay their fare.

ie the airline would not have checked to ensure the documentation was complete. Their contract would just be to transport.

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CGM, that is incredibly helpful, thanks so much!

 

Canada is slightly different to USA - we need a vet health check before we go then a qualified vet will pass our house for quarantine and once we land and get through customs we have to take the birds straight there ourselves. They are checked twice during this home quarantine period.

 

My biggest fear is that we get to Canada after subjecting the birds to a three hour drive to Glasgow and a five hour flight to have them refused at point of entry. That is why I am so determined to get the paperwork right. Someone must know! I will try the links you have given me to see what I can find out.

 

I was also really concerned about your point on proving they were captive bred. All I have is their hatch certificates and micro-chip certificates, but tbh the hatch certificates are just laminated pieces of paper, there is nothing official. I could have knocked them up myself for all intents and purposes. I truly hope they will suffice, together with a letter from my vet saying they are all captive bred pets, which I presume he will write for me knowing how tame they are (Pip politely said hello to him on our last visit, and if we take the macaws that do their usual panic response, and snog my face off whilst sitting on my shoulder!) Are you aware of anything official that you needed for this point?

 

Thanks again!!

Rachel

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Canada is slightly different to USA - we need a vet health check before we go then a qualified vet will pass our house for quarantine and once we land and get through customs we have to take the birds straight there ourselves. They are checked twice during this home quarantine period.

 

Rachel

That's similar to what I believe happens to pet birds coming into this country. :D

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So this week's task has been to research further the paperwork and to get some quotes for transportation.

 

Cgm sent me a fab link (THANKS MATE) from someone who went through what I am going through. It turns out I need CITES paperwork in the form of export certificates, and I have decided to apply to CITES for pet ownership certificates, just incase I need it in the future. I don't need CITES paperwork from the Canadians for Import and I don't need an export certificate from DEFRA, but I need an import certificate from Canada.

 

I rang CITES for some help with the forms, but the man on the phone obviously thought I was a half wit for not knowing which forms to fill in, and just said "It is 0472 (or whatever!)" in a really bored voice. Thanks for that! So I rang back on the other number and this bloke was really friendly and helpful. If at first you don't succeed ...

 

So all parrots are now micro-chipped, I have hatch certificates for them all and I am asking my vet to send me a letterheaded proof of length of ownership and the fact that they are all tame pets (I think I have to prove I have owned them all for six months). The cost from CITES for this is £5 for each species, so £15 for the forms I think is fair enough, just an admin charge really! I'm just wondering whether to send photo's of parrots in various upside down, huggies and "the four corners" - hubby with a macaw on either shoulder and a senegal on either knee!, or is that going too far as a method of proof?

 

So to the transportation company. I called Animal Airlines, they quoted £1350 !! Jetsetpets quoted £950 online, but I have attempted to call their number four times over the last few days, and am not getting an answer. I don't think I'll be risking this service level incase anything goes wrong and I need urgent help!

So I called Ladyhaye, the bloke there was absolutely lovely, tells me he has an African grey and remembered my friends senegal parrot who travelled with them over a year ago! Quote was £1050, including travel boxes, which he has offered to wire inside so they can't chew out, a big concern for me. They've got the job! You can't beat great service.

 

Just got to get my passports back now with the visa's in (they are in the consulate now) and I can begin to get organised in earnest...

 

Happily, five parrots are oblivious to all the stress they are causing and are being as normally naughty as ever :shock:

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It all sounds like a complete nightmare :shock: but very good of you to keep us informed step by step, 'cos I for one might be considering a move fairly soon...the way this countriy's going, it's got to be better elsewhere! :(

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Thought I'd give an update

 

I sent off the three pages of CITES forms to DEFRA and they say they will respond hopefully within 15 days. They arrived to CITES end of December, so I am hoping to get news from them in the next week or so, Christmas given.

 

Heard on the news the other day about the swans with H5N1. Whilst I feel very sad indeed every time a single bird becomes infected, the selfish part of me worries all the more as that brings an automatic 90 day ban on the birds moving, as according to my vet. (Feel guilty for being so selfish now) :oops:

 

SO I pray for the wild birds and for my flock that bird flu is not found again in this country, wishful thinking would be ever again, but selfishly thinking at least until June when the plan is to take them!

 

I also asked for an update from Ladyhaye, the carrier company and as yet they have not responded. Air Canada now will not carry birds at all, and if flyZoom decide the same, I don't know how I will comply with the requirement of arriving with the birds by air unless I go through another country first. That would be more stress for the birds and more paperwork for me, so I will be chasing Ladyhaye and finalising bookings the very minute I get the CITES paperwork and export certificates sorted...

 

The transition to living in another country should be a walk in the park after this lot :? :shock:

 

Rachel

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It's just so complicated isn't it :roll: Avian flu is just the sort of added complication you don't need. Is Air Canada's decision just for the duration of avian flu, or permanent?

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CITES certificate paperwork arrived Saturday morning YAY

 

Max is not amused that he is referred to as a number, and Princess Blue demanded I send them back to have her name put on it :lol:

 

So I have contacted immigration in Canada, he says I can fill in all the paperwork and have the import visa's ready for issue once we have our house passed for quarantine in May, yay!!

 

Downside is I called Ladyhaye as the quote they did in December (£1050 ish) had expired, and they have sent an updated quote, which is now £1350 :evil: . I rang her and asked her to have another look at it, as she thinks the airline has put the price up by 60% in a month - trouble is Zoom are the only carrier for birds to Canada, and they will only book through a pet carrier agent.

 

Oh well, at least we are getting there ....

 

Rachel

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Doing a huge catch up of the last few days on the forum, and just seen this. Why does it have to be such hard work? So complicated? I don't know....

 

Still, there's progress. :D

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Another update!

 

CITES paperwork is fine until July - i faxed all my paperwork to the bloke in Canada who has said he will issue the import permits once the vet in Nova Scotia has passed our house for quarantine. She is ready to come over to the house when we go in May so fingers crossed we are getting there.

 

Plus, I got Ladyhaye to drop their quote again to £1100, including travel boxes, which is a big plus. And I got confirmation today that they have been booked as cargo on 26th June, so now we have a final date to go WOOHOO!!

 

Feeling a bit nervous now, it is becoming real now they are (fingers crossed) sorted

:?

Rachel

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Latest update on the flock's move - we have all booked our one way ticket to Canada on 26th June !!!!!!!!

 

We will be met by an immigration vet on arrival, who will sign them off and will do a home visit during quarantine. Total cost including permit, approx CAD$265 (£132).

 

I wonder if he'll bring some valium for me lol

 

Please gods let it all go smoothly now until then...

 

Rachel

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Latest update - I have just emailed DEFRA to ensure they haven't changed the rules in the last few weeks lol :?

 

We fly out to Canada in May to set up the cages (ok, I fess up, I got a bit carried away and ordered five HUGE cages, but they are so cheap in America, and they deliver ... and, and ...Hubby didn't look best amused but tough!) and we need to have the house passed for quarantine.

 

So the email I got the other day informing me that the two huge stainless steel macaw cages I ordered to be delivered in May to pass quarantine with had been sold (I put a deposit on all the cages, it was a "mistake" apparantly). Luckily, they are offering to send two macaw sized cages free of charge to rectify their mistake. Gawd I hope these cages appear when we get there, it will be embarrassing trying to get quarantine passed with no cages!!!

 

Looking on the bright side, we have arranged the quarantine inspector to arrive a week in, so we can run round like the proverbial if anything goes wrong when we get there!

 

Getting close now, I can't wait!! :)

 

Rachel

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Rachel, can i be cheeky and ask where you got your cages from ?

 

We may need some soon, we are going out to Canada next week to see family, and then its decision time :shock: Thanks in advance.

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