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Avian flu confirmed in Suffolk 12/11.07

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excuse my thickness but what difference is there between the two types?

which 2 types ?


Flu viruses are classified by numbers & letters and some are more virulent than others

the one that we keep getting fright scares about is

H5N1 but at present this latest is classified as H5Nx where x= is unknown it may be 5 but that has not been confirmed but equally it could be a different strain !

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it said on the internet that HN5 had been confirmed but not HN51 i assumed they were two different strains is it just that HN51 is such a virulent one then

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Do you mean H5 and N1?

If so I'm sorry I didn't explain it very well.


Assumimg that is your question....


The different avian influenzas are numbered H1 TO H16.


Only H5 and H7 are known to become highly pathogenic.

(Pathogenic meaning disease causing.)


This outbreak is an H5 virus, but we are waiting to hear if it is H5N1, and if it is highly pathogenic.


Edit: Just read your post above. Does this make it clearer?

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H5N1 is the form of avain flu that all the panic mongering is over


Hx refers to the type this out break is H5 and the strain is Nx reffers to the strain


the last UK out break of avian flu was H7N2

human flu viruses have different codings

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.......that all the panic mongering is over

Good quote stormbird. All the avian flu viruses are adapted to birds and the big worry is not that we humans will become infected, but that the outbreak will spread through this country's poultry flocks.

Hence the exclusion zone etc.

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FOR THOSE WONDERING ABOUT TRANSMISSION of this disease I found this on the BBC site


Last Updated: Friday, 17 February 2006, 09:56 GMT


E-mail this to a friend Printable version


Reality takes wing over bird flu



Leon Bennun



Vested interests mean wild birds are being blamed for the spread of avian flu, argues Dr Leon Bennun in this week's Green Room, whereas responsibility really lies with modern farming. Demands for culling and the destruction of nesting sites threaten, he says, to bring rare species to extinction, but will do nothing to halt the disease.



The role of migratory wild birds in the transmission of the disease has been exaggerated and sensationalised




Send us your views

During the second week in February, Western Europe reported its first cases of the highly pathogenic H5N1 strain of avian flu in wild birds.


Across Italy, Greece and Slovenia, more than 25 mute swans died; by Valentine's Day, the virus had also been found in wild swans in Austria and Germany.


Conservationists, poultry keepers and health officials are bracing themselves for more widespread outbreaks.


Fuelled in part by alarmist press reports and by the attempts of government agencies to draw blame away from farming, there are now calls for drastic measures against wild bird populations.


I believe these measures would put some species at risk of extinction, without having any effect on the spread of avian flu.


Catching the culprits


The likelihood is that the swans now dying in Western Europe had recently arrived from the Black Sea, driven south and west by freezing conditions that prevented them feeding.


They may have caught the disease from other wild birds; but this is unlikely given the tens of thousands of waterfowl that have tested negative for H5N1 over the last decade.





Bird flu


Much more likely is that before starting out, they picked up the virus from farms, either from infected poultry or their faeces. Mute swans often graze agricultural fields, and are likely to have come into contact with poultry manure spread as a fertiliser.


If wild birds had been spreading the disease across continents there would have been trails of outbreaks following migration routes; but this hasn't happened.


The "wild bird" theory for the spread of H5N1 also provides no explanation as to why certain countries on flight paths of birds from Asia remain flu-free, whilst their neighbours suffer repeated infections.


What is striking is that countries like Japan and South Korea, which imposed strict controls on the import and movement of domestic poultry after initial outbreaks, have suffered no further infections. Myanmar has never had an outbreak.


In fact, countries which have not yet developed a large-scale intensive poultry industry have also been largely spared. The UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) reports that in Laos, 42 out of 45 outbreaks affected intensive poultry units.


Lethal evolution


Highly pathogenic avian influenza viruses are very rare in wild birds.



Intensively-farmed poultry provide ideal conditions for the evolution of highly lethal forms


But in intensively farmed poultry, the high density of birds and constant exposure to faeces, saliva and other secretions provide ideal conditions for the replication, mutation, recombination and selection through which highly lethal forms can evolve.


Add to this repeated misdiagnosis, industry and government cover-ups, and panic selling or processing of potentially infected birds, and we have the explanation for why H5N1 is now endemic in parts of South-East Asia.


Factor in the global nature of the poultry industry, and the international movement of live poultry and poultry products both before and after the Asian outbreaks, and we have the most plausible mechanism for the spread of the virus between places which are not connected by the flyways of migratory birds.


The timing and pattern of outbreaks has been largely inconsistent with wild bird movements; but they have often followed major trade routes.


The view that poultry movements have played a major role in the spread of the disease is supported by an analysis of viral strains recently published in the US journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.


Some of the agencies attempting to monitor and control avian flu, such as the FAO, seem to have been reluctant to draw attention to the role of intensive agriculture, because of the impact on national economies and on access to cheap sources of protein.


Senseless destruction


For this and other reasons, the role of migratory wild birds in the transmission of the disease has been exaggerated, and further sensationalised in the press.



A dead swan is examined for evidence of H5N1 infection

In some countries there has been a backlash against bird conservation, leading to calls for the culling of whole populations, draining of wetlands and destruction of nesting sites.


In fact, H5N1 outbreaks in wild birds have so far mostly burned themselves out without culls or other human interventions.


Some of the world's most threatened birds may be put at risk. But there is also the near-certainty of damage to ecosystem services on which people and economies depend.


Alarmingly for those who fear a human bird flu epidemic, such a distorted picture also means that the right questions are not being asked, and the most effective protection measures may not be undertaken.


BirdLife is calling for an independent inquiry into the spread of H5N1 which gives due weight to the role of the global poultry industry, and maps both official and unofficial poultry trade routes against the pattern of outbreaks.


It may also be time to take a long, hard look at the way the world feeds itself, and to decide whether the price paid for modern farming in terms of risks to human health and the Earth's biodiversity is too high.



Dr Leon Bennun is Director of Science, Policy and Information for BirdLife International.


The Green Room is a series of opinion articles on environmental issues running weekly on the BBC News website




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My problem that i have with this illness is where does it come from. According to my local news the turkeys that are being slaughtered at the moment are kept indoors as were the BM ones in the last outbreak so where does it start. This farm has not had any imported birds (so they say) I just struggle to work out how they got it? Is it in the wild birds all the time?

Am i just being a bit thick

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Mr Landeg confirmed that the affected birds were free-range - meaning they had access to the outdoors and may have been of greater risk of catching the disease.



from here



It was confirmed that the BM outbreak almost certainly came from Hungry ! The exact route it arrived by has not been determined but it was almost certainly either by imported turkeys or by immigrant workers from Hungry .


Although certain people keep trying to blame wild birds for spreading it H5N1 is so virulent that it is highly unlikely to have been spread by that route . Although wild birds have been found infected with H5N1 they almost certainly were infected from domestic stock and despite regular sampling of wild bird flocks no cases have been reported away from sites of infected domestic poultry .


The big problem is that there is little or no monitoring of the transport of poultry within the EEC , and it would appear that untill there is there will continue to be outbreaks :shock: :shock:

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It is such a shame that all these diseases seem to be around at the moment, all these animals being slaughtered, while i have some sympathy for the farmers (except BM) maybe more checks need to be done to actually stop these diseases getting into the stock.

As you say Stormy if there are little or no checks being done then this cycle will just continue.

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:cry: :cry: :cry: :evil: :oops: :shock: Why are we such an arrogant and greedy species that seems to think its fine to feed animals unnatural foods laced with drugs like growth hormones and antibiotics - given not to treat illness but to maximise profit and yield - and then be surprised when bacteria and viruses mutate to form resistant forms - and situations like this? Mad cow disease was caused by feeding cows reconstituted carcases of their own kind!


:evil: :twisted: WHAT ARE WE DOING :twisted: :evil:


Last night on the tele (BBC 4) I saw a heard of beautiful long horn cows - ALL CLONED!


Seems logical to me that the more we mess with Mother Nature - the more she is going to mess with us - and she is it seems!


I find myself finding hard not to cry at this precise moment!


And of course, the government have to be seen as 'doing something' - the culling of wild birds being an obvious choice for appeasing the masses.


So many mouths to feed...............! :cry:

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In past outbreaks yes that has happen because some parrot/birdkeepers have actually been scared either directly by the panic mongers or by pressure from friends/neighbours falsely claiming that they were being put at risk by bird keepers ! Some people actually suffered harassment because they are bird keepers .

H5N1 is not a disease of humans those humans who have caught this disease have got it through VERY close contact with infected birds . Also it is predominately a disease of domestic poultry and is passed on by contamination by the droppings of infected birds -----------NO contact =no infection

Yes there was a reported incidence of parrots infected in Quarantine in the UK but they were infected by other birds in the Quarantine station . That may not happen again as the regulations have been changed preventing shipments from different locations being mixed !

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Guest ytagguk

david wrote


"There is one way we can help: stop buying mass-produced factory poultry and eggs. Tell Bernard to stuff his Twizzlers!


FANTASTIC!! i just wish people would listen, i dont eat meat, and i only buy RSPCA monitered eggs, i agree they are expensive, but they are from happy hens, and that makes me feel better.

while people keep buying cheap meat, cheap eggs, then this will carry on,

and as to bernard nerd, i emailed them a while back and told them just what i thought of them. LOL


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