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stephie

Goffins that needs help = HAPPY ENDING :)

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right here goes. i was in buxton yesterday & went into the pet shops. (there's 2 in buxton). in one of them there'a goffins for sale £395 including cage. the cage is a perla. he has no toys in the cage & dirty water. he's started pulling his feathers out one of his legs is almost bare & he basically looks tatty. the owner clearly didn't know much about him all he could say about him was that "they're endangered in the wild, i think".

i asked him about papers & he looked confused & said no he hasn't got any. so i asked how old he was, apparently he's 12.

it was so hard to walk away from him. i really can't imagine him being sold to the knowledgable home he needs. he bited as well. as we were leaving i said to alex, i was tempted to buy a load of toys just to put in his cage & alex sais i was tempted to buy him.

 

so, questions

can anyone help him out?

does a 12 year old goffins need papers? i didn't think so coz i thought cites was only introduced about 8 years ago or something. (could be totally wrong).

what do i do if he does need papers?

is there a way to prove his age? (owner could know more than he let on, & may be selling a young bird without the necessary papers)

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Hmmm difficult one that.. If I am correct, if the bird is covered by cites, then the shop owner and potential new owner are both going to be in trouble. As You know it is both illegal to sell and or buy a bird without the correct paperwork.

 

 

As for telling the age, I dont suppose for one second this bird has a ring on? If not gonna be just about impossible I am afraid..

 

The paperwork, you could contact DEFRA who should give you the number for cites based in Bristol (I think) they would be able to tell you what you need to do..

 

I am not an expert on this by any means but hope that has helped you a little bit..

 

Wish I could help further.

 

Good luck

 

 

Edited to remove incorrect information.. Sorry :oops:

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Any cites 1 bird needs papers if it is sold,regardless of age.

To get papers the bird needs to be either closed rung or micro-chipped.

As mentioned,it is illegal to buy or sell Goffins without the correct papers.

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Guest Jane Doe

It isn't illegal if the bird is given away for free. I guess you tell the shop owner to give you the bird free of charge,( you can pay for the cage) or you will report him to Defra. Take pictures as proof the goffin was in the shop incase they try and wriggle out of it.

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so if he needs papers regardelss of age, what can i do?

 

not suggesting i buy him or anything, but he is still for sale & i really don't think the pet shop owner will gift him to anyone.

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sorry jane, cross posted.

alex took a couple of pics on his mobile when the owner was serving some other people.

 

if i reported him to defra, what would happen to the bird?

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Guest Jane Doe

I don't know, I really hope they don't put them to sleep. Difficult situation, like I say you can buy the cage but not the bird, he has to be "gifted to you" what anyone pays for the cage is up to them.

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i've done a bit of reading, thanks for the link roz. i'm reluctant to report him to defra. jane said she hopes he doesn't get put to sleep which makes me thinks that might be a possibility. and i don't want that, it helps no-one, especially not the bird which is my primary concern right now.

 

i don't know why this one has got to me so much. there's a pet shop not far from me that's notorious for keeping birds in bad conditions (& they've had a goffins in the past) & i go in there often to check up. and then there's hamers pets another one known for keeping birds in less than ideal conditions. but for some reason i just can't stop thinking about this little guy.

 

oh i really don't know what to do for the best.

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Hi in answere to your query C.I.T.E.S. was drawn up in around 1975 at the Washington Convention to control trade in endangered species. A t first not many countries signed up to it but now almost all countries in the world are involved and they control their own wildlife by uplisting or downlisting the species in their own country and have to get backing from the remaning members.

The Goffins Cockatoo (Cacatua goffini) was placed on appendix two on the 6/06/1981 and then uplifted to appendix one on the 11/06/1992. and as said by others on here it must have valid paperwork to sell it or buy it issued by DEFRA as an article "10" document.

There is a heavy fine if persons are found to be dealing in unregistered birds for both the buyer and the sellor. Owing to the possibility that there may be many hundereds of parrots in cages as pets from years ago DEFRA / CITES have drawn up paperwork that is legal regarding Pets that come on the market, but the owner must give full particulars of where it came from and if it is from a deceased estate this also has to be divulged each claim is taken on information provided and if it is acceptable papers will be issued with certain clauses as to what you can and cannot do with it.

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Stephie, I just thought, maybe you should print this off and take it to the pet shop owner and see what he says about it then.. You could also give him a copy of the link that Roz put in, pointing out the 'gift' part..

He and the prospective new owners could be in alot of trouble. Given the fact that this bird has now been discussed in an open forum, I wouldnt recommend anyone buying it..

 

But this is only my personal opinion, and I dont wish to offend anyone in anyway.

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I`ve been giving this a lot of consideration and am more than a little concerned about this bird

As a pet shop the owner should be aware of CITES ignorance is not an excuse , and where did he get it from ?

If this bird is only 12 year old it was born 3 years after the species was listed as CITES old which makes me wonder why it has no papers !

Rather than being worried about DEFRA disposing of the bird I`m a little concerned that this bird could be disposed of to avoid prosecution :( unfortunately tomorrow is Good Friday which is going to make taking any action to safeguard this bird a little difficult !

 

BUT what to do :?: there is I suppose the incompetents from the RSPCA but I`m loathe to recommend that route ! There is I suppose John Hayward ---- given that it has no papers could it be a stolen bird that`s been passed around ?? that might be a route to investigate :!: :!:

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I agree with what you are saying about trying to find out if this bird is stolen or not, but as far as we are aware this bird isnt rung and probably not chipped either, so proving ownership is going to be a problem.

 

I really do feel sorry for this bird and wish there was something we could do to help, but I feel that we are all going to find nothing but brick walls over this one :cry:

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As this bird is ??? under 15 years old it may well be traceable via it`s DNA ! because it could well be UK bred ,there is of course the possibility that it`s an illegal import but unless this bird is checked nobody will know !

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Guest Jane Doe

If he knows they are endangered he must know about cites, probably wasn't banking on a savvy customer comming in though. I'm worried as well, the bird could be disposed of by defra or the shop owner.... He should just give him to Steph, losing a few hundred quid is nothing compared to what will happen if the authorities come down on him like a ton of bricks!

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have just read this post and have nothing constructive to add,just wondering, how much would anyone expect to pay for a goffins from a private seller? if its for sale with cage at £300 odd couldnt that in itself be as good as buying the cage and getting the bird free?sorry i cant add anything useful.

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couldnt that in itself be as good as buying the cage and getting the bird free?sorry i cant add anything useful.

---- NO ----- as it is in a shop it`s disposal (sale etc) has to be legalised !!!!! If this bird was not a CITES listed species (endangered) doing that would be OK this bird must now have papers !!

As for DEFRA euthanasing it I don`t think they would dare to do so without just cause i.e. it has some nasty disease such as PBFD, especially as knowledge of it is in the public domain and questions could be asked !

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Hi,

If you buy the bird and get a signed and dated bill of sale, and then ring DEFRA at once to say you have brought this bird but the shop/owner did not give you any paperwork DEFRA will sort it out for you.

 

They have agreed to help the many people who do not have paperwork and will issue you with paperwork, if the shop/owner then gets into trouble you at least would have saved the bird and got this little bird the paperwork he needs.

 

I might add that the price is very low so it is likely that someone will buy the bird over the holidays.

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don't have much to add to the thread other than to say thanks fo the advice you've all given. and the Pms i've recived offereing advice.

no, the bird didn't have a ring on.

 

ithink my next step would be to go back to the shop (probably will be on wednesday) and speak to the owner again about his papers. pretend i'm interested in buying him & say i've looked into it & she should have papers even though he's 12, ask where he came from. not like quizzing him but like someone genuinely interested in buying the bird.

 

what do you think?

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I think that's a good idea Stephie, but I think that Jebirds has made a great point - if you can afford to help, then DEFRA will sort you out after that.

 

Hard decision for you, especially as you have just taken on a Hahn's recently,good luck!

Rachel

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i know.

if i was to take on the goffins, i can't pretend it'll be permenant. it would be to get him away from where he is now. i have to be realistic, i don't know much about toos especially a 12 year old depressed too that bites and plucks. chances are that if i was to take him, i'll probably be on lookout for a more experienced home for him. someone who knows toos & wouldn't shy away from getting him back tothe way he should be.

 

i actually have the money tobe able tobuy him as well. luckily (maybe) i didn't take my cash card out with me, just took some cash. alex was really tempted to walk away with him there and then.

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Guest parrotlady

Stephie

 

I have been in that situation many, many times, and I can honestly say I have never ever regretted buying the bird. Even the OW that died within 4 months despite £3000 of vet's fees!

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This bird could have come from an aviary........he could have killed numerous hens & now hes doomed to life in a cage. £395 isnt that cheap if thats his history....but no ring & prob no history I suspect you will never find out :cry:

 

Ive just found out the "proven" pr of blue breasted Meyers I bought from a dealer are in fact 2 ***** :cry: ........so im a bit peeved with dealers at the moment :( ......i should have known better than to trust his word!

 

Gary

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