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What's happening with the charity parrotcare?


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288 replies to this topic

#1
Net

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I, and I'm sure many other members, are feeling a bit like a mushroom at the moment.

Could someone please tell us what's happening?  My main concerns are where all the Parrotcare birds are?  What is their future as now the charity has been dissolved?

I'm also sure that the constant deleting of posts doesn't help either.
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~ Loyal slave to her Ladyship Harry and Princess Tinker the Yellow Thighed Caiques ~ Posted Image

#2
Animalia

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I share your concerns Net.
Although, I'm not sure if June is still in charge of PL? with parrotcare dissolving the relationship between the two must no longer exist?

#3
admin

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The whole parrotcare section has gone off-line.

June is no longer involved with parrot-link as of a few hours ago.

We'll make an announcement shortly, sorry, in the process of finalizing things.

Our goal is to take the forum forward.


#4
Net

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Thanks Neil (?).  Please let me know if I can help.
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~ Loyal slave to her Ladyship Harry and Princess Tinker the Yellow Thighed Caiques ~ Posted Image

#5
Astralgal

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I don't usually use the parrot-link forum, just the parrotcare one but have been unable to view it all day and the facebook page disappeared too. I had no idea that the charity was being dissolved and think that the forum just being blocked and deleted is causing some worry.
I hope the birds are all ok

Build a little birdhouse in your soul......

#6
timothy

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hi all. i dont pretend to now whats going on and i dont much care,this is a parrot forum for people to share knowledge about these lovely birds we keep and to buy and sell our birds...now can you imagine new bird keepers joining this forum and seeing post of people bad mouthing one another,,not good.air your dirty linen in private and lets keep the forum for the birds...cheers tim
tim smith

#7
Pippy

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'Dirty linen'?? Good God, do you have any idea how many people on this forum have donated money to the charity and so deserve an explanation? This is not 'dirty linen' or idle gossip, as I know first-hand from things I've quite recently seen with my own eyes.

#8
Animalia

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This is completely about the birds, people do deserve an explanation and an apology. However I do completely understand if the new 'management' wish to gloss over what has been to many a huge betrayal of trust.

#9
Pippy

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In which case, the truth should be posted in a locked topic and the matter laid to rest. All those involved know the truth and have done for quite some time now.

#10
Animalia

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In which case, the truth should be posted in a locked topic and the matter laid to rest. All those involved know the truth and have done for quite some time now.

 

Seconded.
The more serious issues can be dealt with by the legal system, but I think that the only way of moving the forum forward would be to do the above.

#11
Astralgal

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I agree that the best way is to move on and put whatever has happened into the past, the important thing is for people to be able to find information and support for their birds and also to be able to chat with like minded people but I for one would appreciate a post with an explanation as I have recently paid an annual membership, made a financial donation and been raising money through the Easyfundraising site for the Parrotcare charity >:( :(.
Build a little birdhouse in your soul......

#12
admin

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I've no idea why and what, other than contractually when the forum was handed
over to June Edwards (not parrotcare), if came the day she no longer wished to
own the forum, it reverted back to prior ownership... i can't help you beyond that.
We just want to modernise and move forward.
Any existing parrot-link commitments and subscriptions will be honoured.
If you have any issues or concerns, you'll need to direct your concerns to parrotcare
or the parties involved with parrotcare (i have no contact details now PL has been
transfered back).
We're in the dark as much as you other than June wants to take a break and do
other things with her life.
Sorry, there is nothing else i can say.



#13
David

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Pippy  "All those involved know the truth and have done for quite some time now."
Can someone please tell us what this 'truth' is?
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish and he will sit in a boat drinking beer all day.

#14
Animalia

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I've pm'd you David.

#15
MadMudMob™

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I've pm'd you David.


me too please as I don't have a clue

In support of good breeding and parent (or shared) rearing.
Against cube breeders and the buying/selling of unweaned birds.

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#16
Animalia

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Done.

#17
ria

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I'd like to know too, please. All I know is basically what Neil Forbes put in his report...

But I agree that a locked post would be appropriate, seeing as lots of people, myself included, have donated to Parrotcare and it now seems that there are things going on that we don't know about, things that go beyond the individuals involved.

#18
Animalia

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Your inbox is full ria, I cant message you.

#19
ria

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Sorry about that, have deleted some old messages now so should work again :)

#20
Animalia

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I don't want to upset the new management but I'm going to post the Neil Forbes report here, it'll be getting passed around anyway I would imagine and I hope that we can get a new air of openness on the forum, glasnost and all that.

Frankly, the evidence is irrefutable but I'll let you draw your own conclusions:


EXPERT VETERINARY WITNESS REPORT

Neil A Forbes BVetMed FRCVS

Prepared 09/04/2013

STATEMENT OF WITNESS
(C.J. Act 1967, Sec.9: M.C. Act 1980, ss 5A (3) (A) and 5(B), M.C. Rules 1981, Rule 70.)

Statement of Neil A. Forbes BVetMed DipECZM(avian) FRCVS

Age Over 18
Occupation Veterinary Surgeon

This statement (consisting of 4 page(s) each signed by me is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that, if it is tendered in evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

Neil A Forbes FRCVS

Ref Birds Presented to me at Great Western Exotic Vets by Alison Scales,
which had previously been in the care of June Edwards at Parrotcare

Introduction
I the undersigned, have been an RCVS Qualified Recognised Specialist in Avian Medicine since 1992 and a European Recognised Specialist in Avian Medicine since 1997. I gained my FRCVS by examination in exotic bird medicine in 1996. I was senior lecturer in Avian Medicine at Bristol University Vet School from 1999 – 2011.
Instructions
I have been requested by Mrs A Scales, to provide a statement of my findings and treatment of three specific birds, Elsa (Kakariki), Fred and Blue (Blue Fronted Amazon Parrots)

During my career I have been recognised by receipt of the following awards and positions:-
1983 Ag Vet Trophy
1983 Centenary Award
1991 Mackellar Award
1995 Fellowship of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons
1996 Diploma European College of Avian Medicine & Surgery
1998 Fellow Royal Society of Medicine
2000 Senior Reader and Visiting Fellow, University of Bristol Veterinary School
2002 Melton Award
2004 Lafeber – avian practitioner award (fist non US recipient)
2005 William Hunting Award
2006 Registered Forensic Practitioner
2007 President European College of Avian Medicine and Surgery
2009 President European College of Zoological Medicine
2010 President European Board of Veterinary Specialisation
2010 Helga Gerlach Senior Award for Excellence in Avian Medicine (first ever recipient)

I have been a well respected, busy ‘Legal Expert Veterinary Witness’, acting for the RSPCA, various Police forces, DEFRA, Customs and Excise as well as many private solicitors for some 30 years.
I hereby certify that on 12.11.2012, Fred a Blue Fronted Amazon parrot, with defective eyesight was presented to me for examination. On clinical examination it was apparent that Fred had suffered from a chronic, long standing keratitis affecting both his eyes. He is not technically blind, he has retinal function and was certainly not born blind. His eye pressures were normal. Clinical pathology testing revealed that he had an elevated white blood cell count (leucocytosis – indicating active infection), and monocytosis (indicating chronicity – i.e. long standing) and tested positive on serology test for for chlamydiosis (otherwise known as psittacosis). In my expert opinion this bird was suffering from clinical chlamydiosis. Whilst chlamydia will certainly cause upper respiratory infection and conjuncitivitis (amongst other signs) which if left untreated could have resulted in the keratitis (eye damage), there are other potential causes and there is no evidence of a certain cause and effect in this case. Furthermore we do not know exactly when the keratitis first occurred, however this bird should certainly have been subjected to veterinary consultation and treatment at the time he was admitted into the care of Parrotcare. Any failure to have had this bird examined and suitably treated at the time of admission, would in my expert opinion have constituted a breach of Section 4 of the Animal Welfare Act 2006, in respect of a failure to provide proper care and attention, such that this bird would have suffered unnecessarily. Furthermore, it is my expert opinion that such suffering would have been unnecessary and would not have been tolerated by a reasonably caring member of society of parrot keeper.
After my consultation, Fred was treated for chlamydia (psittacosis), he had non steroidal anti-inflammatory eye drops applied twice daily and was referred to a veterinary ophthalmologist, to see whether superficial corneal striping by use of laser surgery would be possible to remove the damaged corneal tissue. In the ophthalmologists opinion this is not possible.
My expert opinion is that the duration of suffering is at least 12 months.
Blue (Blue Fronted Amazon), was also first presented on 12.11.2012. Blue was a very sorry site, with normal wing bone and joint structure, but with limited extension of both elbows, due to arthritic changes in these joints. On examination, I believe Blue to be an aged bird. Radiographs show that he has an enlarged heart, severe artherosclerosis and marked arthritis of the elbows, which was evident on x-ray, but more so due to physical examination under general anaesthesiasia. This bird does in my opinion suffer from severe elbow pain and as a result chews out all its own feathers out on both wings, from the elbow outwards. In my expert opinion, no part of the wings have ever been removed, by pliers or any other means, rather simply the bird has removed all feathers, as a response to untreated long-term pain. Blood samples showed an elevated white blood cell count (indicating active infection), and Chlamydia serology test was positive. In my expert opinion this bird was suffering from clinical chlamydiosis (otherwise known as psittacosis).
Blue was discharged with treatment for Chlamydia, pain relief, together with therapy for heart disease and atherosclerosis.
It is my expert opinion that this bird should certainly have been subjected to veterinary consultation and treatment at the time he was admitted into the care of Parrotcare. Any failure to have had this bird examined and suitably treated at the time of admission, would in my expert opinion have constituted a breach of Section 4 of the Animal Welfare Act 2006, in respect of a failure to provide proper care and attention, such that this bird would have suffered unnecessarily. Furthermore, it is my expert opinion that such suffering would have been unnecessary and would not have been tolerated by a reasonably caring member of society of parrot keeper.
My expert opinion is that the duration of suffering is at least 12 months.
Elsa (Kakeriki) – was first presented to us on 11/7/2012. I carried out a complete health check, including blood tests. Blood results, including Chlamydia were normal. However Elsa had a major deformity of the left inter-tarsal joint. On full examination, including whole body radiographs, I was able to demonstrate that Elsa had previously suffered a traumatic dislocation of the inter-tarsal joint. I can confirm that she has never suffered any fractures to the wings. In essence the proximal tarso metatarsus was now placed laterally to her joint, angled at 40o out of alignment. The base of the distal tibio tarsus, was pressing on the skin and being used to weight bare. The effect was a pressure sore and secondary infection in the skin under the distal tibio tarsus. I advised that the appropriate treatment for this injury would be either euthanasia or surgical arthrodesis of the inter-tarsal joint, in order to alleviate the pain that was otherwise on going. We subsequently carried out surgery on this joint to effect a correction. Elsa also had a small residual sub cutaneous abscess on her head, which was opened and debrided.
It is my expert opinion that this bird had been suffering in this way since the initial injury occurred, until she came into Mrs Scales care, at which point I am informed pain relief was provided.
It is my expert opinion that this bird should certainly have been subjected to veterinary consultation and treatment at the time he was admitted into the care of Parrotcare, or at the time of injury if this was subsequent. Any failure to have had this bird examined and suitably treated at the time of admission/injury, would in my expert opinion have constituted a breach of Section 4 of the Animal Welfare Act 2006, in respect of a failure to provide proper care and attention, such that this bird would have suffered unnecessarily. Furthermore, it is my expert opinion that such suffering would have been unnecessary and would not have been tolerated by a reasonably caring member of society of parrot keeper.
Being well versed in legal procedure, I am not prepared to become embroiled in ‘trial by facebook, website or other’, as such I am not prepared to comment on lay opinion, comment or counter claim in this media. The comments that I have made, are the facts, and my expert opinion based on these facts.

Additional Comments
I believe it is important that all interested parties are aware, that the Animal Welfare Act 2006, makes it an offence if any keeper or owner, causes cruelty or unnecessary suffering, or fails to provide ‘good practice’ in respect of any animals welfare.
In the situation of animals being in the care of a Charitable organisation, the carer is defined as the keeper, whilst technically the Directors of the Charity are the owners. In such a situation, if a court finds that an offence has arisen under the AWA Act 2006, not only the Keeper, but also the owner (the Directors), are guilty of that offence and would be charged as such.
The opinions and comments made in this statement, are based on my clinical notes, made contemporaneously to my examinations. In the event of a court case, these will be supported by my laboratory results and radiographs.
Declaration
1.1 I understand that my over riding duty is to the court, both in preparing my report and in giving oral evidence.
1.2 In my report I have set out what I understand from those instructing me to be the questions in respect of which my opinions, as an expert, are required.
1.3 In preparing the report I have done my best to be accurate and complete. I have mentioned all matters which I regard to as relevant to the opinions I have expressed.
1.4 All matters on which I have expressed an opinion lie within my field of expertise, and those which are outside my expertise I have identified.
1.5 I have drawn to the attention of the court all matters of which I am aware which might adversely affect my opinion.
1.6 Where ever I have supplemented my opinion, I have indicated the source of the factual information.
1.7 I have not included anything in this report, or excluded anything from it, which has been suggested to me by anyone, including those who have instructed me, without forming my own independent view on the matter.
1.8 Where in my view, there is a range of opinion I have indicated the extent of that range.
1.9 At the time of signing the report I consider it to be complete and accurate. I will notify the court if for any reason I consider that it requires correction or qualification.
1.10 I understand that this report will be evidence that I will give under oath, subject to any correction or qualification I may make before swearing to its veracity.
1.11 I believe that the facts I have stated in this report are true and that the opinions I have expressed are correct.

Neil A Forbes BVetMed DipECZM(avian) FRCVS
RCVS Recognised Specialist Zoo and Wildlife Medicine (Avian)
European Veterinary Specialist Zoological (avian) Medicine




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